• MarkSoFla

    18 things? I though we only hold like Beis Shammai for 6 things in total across all of gemara. Maybe I am misremembering.

    • http://finkorswim.com E. Fink

      These are the 18 cases where we go with the students of Shammai because they formed the majority on that day.

  • MarkSoFla

    Who was חנניה בן חזקיה and when did he live?

  • BM

    1. “V’amri lah al bei yadayhu” – doesn’t that just mean that others report that he kissed their hands? (I feel like “V’amri lah” typically introduces another version, as opposed to being a quote from the story.)

    2. The “wallowing in Tzaros” of Chanina ben Chizkiya – why not go with Rashi’s pshat?

    • http://finkorswim.com E. Fink

      1) I stand corrected.
      2) I kind of meant that.

      • BM

        According to whose translation?

      • BM

        You – “Because they were the types of the people that loved to talk about Tzaros… He was one of those people that loved to talk about the terrible things that happened.”

        Rashi says their focus was the Geula, and the miracles that arose from the terrible things. I’m not saying your understanding is incorrect, but I don’t see how you “kind of meant” Rashi’s pshat.

        • BM

          Ignoring this doesn’t make it go away.

          • http://finkorswim.com E. Fink

            Snappiness doesn’t get you explanations.

          • BM

            Meant it lighter than it came out.

          • http://finkorswim.com E. Fink

            All I was saying is that my explanation was not at odds with Rashi. And it’s not.

          • BM

            Not automatically at odds, but Rashi’s pshat is somewhat novel; it is not reflected by a literal textual translation. The literal translation is “they loved to talk about Tzaros,” which is how you explained it. How is that “kind of mean[ing]” what Rashi says?

          • BM

            To clarify – they could “love to talk about Tzaros” because of the discussion about Geula that ensued. Not at odds. But since you continued, “… loved to talk about the terrible things that happened,” that seems to make the Tzara the focus, which is not what Rashi seems to say.